Great post - thank-you. Your entreaty to recognise virtue reminded me of CS Lewis’s argument in the Abolition of Man.
Lots to agree with - though I wonder if you may overreach a little in your repudiation of firms and institutions that respond to their measured incentives. There is also a role for self-interest in the provision of our common life - as Smith said, it is not from the benevolence [virtue] of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner.
Thanks for the nice comment. I am definitely influenced by Lewis.
I do agree that measured incentives play a role. However, I think a lack of guiding principle on what and how we measure might be more prominent. This isn't to say that companies won't seek to make money in the end. But how they make money and position themselves long-term are open questions.
Smith would agree, he presumes that the market reflects concerns about norms and reputation. When the virtues undergirding norms erode, the market rewards whatever is easiest to measure.
I have thoughts like these all the time - and thank you for writing them down and having the courage to put them out into the world… you said them far more clearly than I think them haha.
But I often come back to … who am I to judge? And then … how can I make change here, anyways? Like me caring about this thing that feels wrong is like slamming my head against a wall, the cultural forces that reinforce the problems I see seem so entrenched, so I’ll just stay on my side of the street and do little things when I can.
I guess I’m saying I agree with you, but as I write this in a stream of consciousness, it does seem like the “ask” here - the behaviors I would change assuming your premise is true - is proportional to whatever it is I have power to effectively influence, which for me, and I think most of us, is pretty small.
Like, for The NY Times editorial board, corporate leaders, politicians, the ask is pretty big I think relative to what they have done over the last 15 years. But for my various roles in life, I think it’s mainly living by example and when I can, speaking up for what I think is right.
I think this is my question: what broad or specific things can we do to reconstruct virtuous thinking and conduct in our culture?
Thanks for reading, and thanks for the thoughtful and open comment. It's certainly helpful for people, individually, to live virtuous lives and respect others that live similarly, but you're right. It can't carry the whole weight. As you mention, the broader problem is institutional.
I think a good place to start putting pressure would be education. This isn't to say this is the only field that needs changes. But if those that shape education would demand that schools refocus on moral formation, it could solve a great many of our social ills. The commodification of education, and the treatment of students as customers rather than mentees, has done great harm.
Very meaningful, I think it is important to put words to these thoughts so that we can rebuild the vocabulary to talk about virtue, meaning and goodness. Your point about nourishing ways of living reminded me of Christopher Alexander’s argument in favour of life-giving architecture. Aspiring for wholeness is the heart of the matter.
Can you please explain why two of your three examples of virtuous people were a Queer single mother and a Muslim, while two of your three examples of non-virtuous people were a "churchgoing father" and a "traditional family man"? These seem like heavily loaded and prejudiced examples, or I'm missing the point.
I think you are missing the point, but I'll assume good faith in this comment and give you a little more context. In the essay I argue that our current trajectory is toward tribalism and technocracy, lazy categorization. The point is that virtue is how you live, not your label. I think your observation falls into the tribalist trap. You are focused on the labels, what matters is how people live not where their membership cards lie.
Yes, please assume good faith :) This is a good corner of the internet.
I also appreciate your engagement, because, if we are in disagreement (not yet apparent), it sure would be refreshing to rise above the awful propagandizing that has made discussion among people who differ nearly impossible.
Anyway, I did get that broader point, but I guess my question then becomes why use labels at all? Seeing that those particular labels and assignments are acute tribal examples, it seems more like you've fallen into the tribalist trap, not me who's simply noticed it.
Put more bluntly, if you were on extreme left, your beliefs would be: White, Christian, male = oppressor = bad. Everybody else = good.
Similarly, if you were on the extreme right, your beliefs would be White, Christian, male = good, Everbody else = bad.
If you *are* on the extreme left, that's fine, it just wasn't apparent in the rest of this essay so the examples took me by surprise. If you're not, then your examples and categorizing are aligning you perfectly with the extreme left, which would be an unfortunate coincidence.
Regardless, thanks again for the engagement and the essay.
Great post - thank-you. Your entreaty to recognise virtue reminded me of CS Lewis’s argument in the Abolition of Man.
Lots to agree with - though I wonder if you may overreach a little in your repudiation of firms and institutions that respond to their measured incentives. There is also a role for self-interest in the provision of our common life - as Smith said, it is not from the benevolence [virtue] of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner.
Thanks for the nice comment. I am definitely influenced by Lewis.
I do agree that measured incentives play a role. However, I think a lack of guiding principle on what and how we measure might be more prominent. This isn't to say that companies won't seek to make money in the end. But how they make money and position themselves long-term are open questions.
Smith would agree, he presumes that the market reflects concerns about norms and reputation. When the virtues undergirding norms erode, the market rewards whatever is easiest to measure.
I have thoughts like these all the time - and thank you for writing them down and having the courage to put them out into the world… you said them far more clearly than I think them haha.
But I often come back to … who am I to judge? And then … how can I make change here, anyways? Like me caring about this thing that feels wrong is like slamming my head against a wall, the cultural forces that reinforce the problems I see seem so entrenched, so I’ll just stay on my side of the street and do little things when I can.
I guess I’m saying I agree with you, but as I write this in a stream of consciousness, it does seem like the “ask” here - the behaviors I would change assuming your premise is true - is proportional to whatever it is I have power to effectively influence, which for me, and I think most of us, is pretty small.
Like, for The NY Times editorial board, corporate leaders, politicians, the ask is pretty big I think relative to what they have done over the last 15 years. But for my various roles in life, I think it’s mainly living by example and when I can, speaking up for what I think is right.
I think this is my question: what broad or specific things can we do to reconstruct virtuous thinking and conduct in our culture?
Thanks for reading, and thanks for the thoughtful and open comment. It's certainly helpful for people, individually, to live virtuous lives and respect others that live similarly, but you're right. It can't carry the whole weight. As you mention, the broader problem is institutional.
I think a good place to start putting pressure would be education. This isn't to say this is the only field that needs changes. But if those that shape education would demand that schools refocus on moral formation, it could solve a great many of our social ills. The commodification of education, and the treatment of students as customers rather than mentees, has done great harm.
Thanks Matt! That’s helpful 🙂
Very meaningful, I think it is important to put words to these thoughts so that we can rebuild the vocabulary to talk about virtue, meaning and goodness. Your point about nourishing ways of living reminded me of Christopher Alexander’s argument in favour of life-giving architecture. Aspiring for wholeness is the heart of the matter.
Thanks so much for reading! I am not famliar with Alexander's life-giving architecture, I'll have to check that out. It sounds really interesting!
Can you please explain why two of your three examples of virtuous people were a Queer single mother and a Muslim, while two of your three examples of non-virtuous people were a "churchgoing father" and a "traditional family man"? These seem like heavily loaded and prejudiced examples, or I'm missing the point.
I think you are missing the point, but I'll assume good faith in this comment and give you a little more context. In the essay I argue that our current trajectory is toward tribalism and technocracy, lazy categorization. The point is that virtue is how you live, not your label. I think your observation falls into the tribalist trap. You are focused on the labels, what matters is how people live not where their membership cards lie.
Yes, please assume good faith :) This is a good corner of the internet.
I also appreciate your engagement, because, if we are in disagreement (not yet apparent), it sure would be refreshing to rise above the awful propagandizing that has made discussion among people who differ nearly impossible.
Anyway, I did get that broader point, but I guess my question then becomes why use labels at all? Seeing that those particular labels and assignments are acute tribal examples, it seems more like you've fallen into the tribalist trap, not me who's simply noticed it.
Put more bluntly, if you were on extreme left, your beliefs would be: White, Christian, male = oppressor = bad. Everybody else = good.
Similarly, if you were on the extreme right, your beliefs would be White, Christian, male = good, Everbody else = bad.
If you *are* on the extreme left, that's fine, it just wasn't apparent in the rest of this essay so the examples took me by surprise. If you're not, then your examples and categorizing are aligning you perfectly with the extreme left, which would be an unfortunate coincidence.
Regardless, thanks again for the engagement and the essay.